Monday, August 25, 2008


    From Cobus at My Contemplations:

    Maybe we should put heaven back into it’s place, as a footnote to our theology. Now, for the serious theologians who want to deliver critique, let me say up front, I’m not saying that eschatology is a footnore to our theology, just that the heaven (and specifically the heaven hell thing after you die) should be a footnote to our theology. Kind of like I’d wanna say: “OK, so life don’t stop when you kick the bucket, we clear on that? Good! Now: so you say you believe in God? You agree that then doing things God’s way is best? You do? OK, so lets go search for that, cause the Bible has a lot more to say on that than on who’s going to heaven and who not!”


    pastorwick said...

    I dunno. I wasn't a big fan of this article's comment on heaven...or those who left love on the site. I left my comment there. You can read it there if you like.

    But I'm pretty sure the Kingdom of God is incredibly more important that we are proclaiming it.

    (all that to say, yes - the streets of gold and mansions of glory are far less important than most have made them)

    Brian said...

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I offer the quote not necessarily as an endorsement but rather as food for thought. I too believe the Kingdom of God is very important. For me the crucial question is whether we spend our time focused on a Kingdom in the afterlife or on the Kingdom of God in the here-and-now. The distinction, as I see it, almost defines two entirely different religions, each calling themselves Christianity but with fundamentally different concerns. One focused on personal salvation and the afterlife, the other focused on God's justice right now.

    pastorwick said...

    I can dig it. :)

    Joel Mayward said...

    Could we view the kingdom as here but not here, now but not yet, living in the tension of both? Focusing on just the future kingdom creates a "rollercoaster line" gospel (we just wait around until the fun at the end). Focusing on just the present kingdom ignores the glory of the new heavens/earth, our hope for the future, and the fact that it's God establishing His kingdom, not us doing it for Him.

    Brian said...

    I think that is absolutely a great way to think about it. We may get glimpses of the Kingdom in the here-and-now, but it is also hopeful to see it as something that is breaking into our reality but not yet fully. Hope is important and I think you are right that it can't all be about us and our efforts. God is part of the equation! Thanks for sharing your insights.

    Cobus said...

    well, don't think I've ever been anyone's "quote of the day", thanx.

    I'll leave the responding to you, lest I mess up my own quote:-)

    Anonymous said...

    wow, ok honestly not a huge fan the article. i understand and would agree... i have a similar beef with heaven theology but more on the lifestyle liven in fear of Rapture theology.

    my comment is this.
    what is defined as heaven...hopefully when he finish's reading Willard he will see some more of Willard's theology of the here and now which is all about the Kingdom.

    i believe we have a huge issue with how we have defined the kingdom of God, solely as heaven bound reality. which i don't believe is the case what so ever.

    Heaven, which the same word is used in the greek for Air, and spirit, and kingdom sometimes interchangeably is the very thing that jesus tells us to pray for... your will be done on earth as it is in it is in your current kingdom... the problem is we have missed this detrimental word there....COME... a joining of heaven and earth which is where and how the kingdom is to take place

    the problem which i would agree with this guy is that we have made it a theology of some other worldly place where the good go. so yes our theology of heaven is CRAP for the most part..

    sorry for this being long)

    but this comment
    "Stephen Says:
    August 13, 2008 at 8:36 am

    The solas were developed at a time when soteriology was the hot topic - in the same way the Nicene Creed was developed with Christology as the hot topic. Hence we shouldn’t expect the solas to address life now because they weren’t trying to do that. Maybe its time for someone to write the 3/4/5? Pillars of Christian living today:)"

    i find way to Doug and Tony, things are wrong lets start over, for me. we would not be where we are

    the church and her theology on her one true love has been growing and trying to become more and more accurate from day one... this again is one of those times i believe